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	<title>Comments on: PSU Probing Question: Do Animals Have Legal Rights</title>
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		<title>By: Bea Elliott</title>
		<link>http://gantdaily.com/2010/02/28/psu-probing-question-do-animals-have-legal-rights/comment-page-1/#comment-17</link>
		<dc:creator>Bea Elliott</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 02 Mar 2010 05:22:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://gantdaily.com/?p=19365#comment-17</guid>
		<description>Eden Springs... There are many who believe we might eventually recognize a &quot;guardianship&quot; relationship with some nonhumans who can&#039;t otherwise exist on their own...  Besides, I think this eventuality is very far into unknown time.  I&#039;d say it wouldn&#039;t make much sense to continue eating animals today, simply because you might not be able to &quot;own&quot; a pet in the future.

Now, as far as directly competing against nonhumans for food --- Why we already do this!  Farmed animals consume 85% of soy and 75% of corn as it is!  And it takes about 10 times the amount of grain to produce the same amount in plant based nutrition... Not very efficient is it?  Nor is it sustainable when you factor in the manure lagoons, methane, wasteful use of water and fossil fuels to breed and &quot;process&quot; this flesh... The refridgerated transport trucks, refridgerated &quot;meat cases&quot;.... At home storage, etc.  Then the product must be cooked at very high temperatures to make it &quot;safe&quot; to eat.  What irony!  Compared to the shelf life of dry beans - We can see we won&#039;t be at a disadvantage at all, if we cease breeding animals for &quot;food&quot;.  I don&#039;t see a conversion to a world living on a vegan diet done through legislation, but rather through necessity and common sense.

And as far as third world countries go... As it is a billion people already starve due to the fact that we fatten farmed animals rather than distribute grain to those humans... 

This idea you have that animals would be &quot;voting&quot; is absurd and meant as a scare tactic, aimed at those unfamiliar with what the real intention of &quot;Animal Rights&quot; is.  We all share one common thread - Whether cat, pig, man or frog... We all value our lives equally.  Our moral compass has always pointed towards the desire of a just and fair world... Seems like extending that respect to the least among us is consistent with our progress towards &quot;civilization&quot;.

@KathieK - I&#039;d say that there is a necessity of spaying and neutering &quot;over populated&quot; domestic animals... They&#039;re here due to human negligence and/or greed - Certainly preventing mass killings in &quot;shelters&quot; and pounds is the least offensive choice we can make on their behalf.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Eden Springs&#8230; There are many who believe we might eventually recognize a &#8220;guardianship&#8221; relationship with some nonhumans who can&#8217;t otherwise exist on their own&#8230;  Besides, I think this eventuality is very far into unknown time.  I&#8217;d say it wouldn&#8217;t make much sense to continue eating animals today, simply because you might not be able to &#8220;own&#8221; a pet in the future.</p>
<p>Now, as far as directly competing against nonhumans for food &#8212; Why we already do this!  Farmed animals consume 85% of soy and 75% of corn as it is!  And it takes about 10 times the amount of grain to produce the same amount in plant based nutrition&#8230; Not very efficient is it?  Nor is it sustainable when you factor in the manure lagoons, methane, wasteful use of water and fossil fuels to breed and &#8220;process&#8221; this flesh&#8230; The refridgerated transport trucks, refridgerated &#8220;meat cases&#8221;&#8230;. At home storage, etc.  Then the product must be cooked at very high temperatures to make it &#8220;safe&#8221; to eat.  What irony!  Compared to the shelf life of dry beans &#8211; We can see we won&#8217;t be at a disadvantage at all, if we cease breeding animals for &#8220;food&#8221;.  I don&#8217;t see a conversion to a world living on a vegan diet done through legislation, but rather through necessity and common sense.</p>
<p>And as far as third world countries go&#8230; As it is a billion people already starve due to the fact that we fatten farmed animals rather than distribute grain to those humans&#8230; </p>
<p>This idea you have that animals would be &#8220;voting&#8221; is absurd and meant as a scare tactic, aimed at those unfamiliar with what the real intention of &#8220;Animal Rights&#8221; is.  We all share one common thread &#8211; Whether cat, pig, man or frog&#8230; We all value our lives equally.  Our moral compass has always pointed towards the desire of a just and fair world&#8230; Seems like extending that respect to the least among us is consistent with our progress towards &#8220;civilization&#8221;.</p>
<p>@KathieK &#8211; I&#8217;d say that there is a necessity of spaying and neutering &#8220;over populated&#8221; domestic animals&#8230; They&#8217;re here due to human negligence and/or greed &#8211; Certainly preventing mass killings in &#8220;shelters&#8221; and pounds is the least offensive choice we can make on their behalf.</p>
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		<title>By: Eden Springs</title>
		<link>http://gantdaily.com/2010/02/28/psu-probing-question-do-animals-have-legal-rights/comment-page-1/#comment-16</link>
		<dc:creator>Eden Springs</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 01 Mar 2010 19:00:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://gantdaily.com/?p=19365#comment-16</guid>
		<description>And down the slippery slope we go!  Let&#039;s give animals full legal rights, okay?  Will it end their suffering?  Well, has it ended OURS?  No, because while there are actually enormously pressing things to worry about, we diddle about trying to start some program that will end up with animals either a) suing the Democrats and Republicans over their party logos being slanderous or, b) ACTUAL elephants and donkeys elected to government rather than the stand-ins we currently have running the show.

And, if you grant animals rights, you can say &#039;Bye-Bye!&#039; to ever having a pet again, visiting a circus, zoo or aquarium, eating meat or any dairy, eggs or honey as well as any type of food produced using those items as ingredients.

Then, there&#039;s the really tricky part.  Since we will then be forced into becoming strict vegans through legislation, humanity will be in direct competition with our former pets and livestock for a limited amount of forage.  And, since it will no longer be legal to hunt, trap or otherwise kill the recently emancipated horses, cattle, sheep, pigs, goats and other beasts, WHO decides how to divide those fields of soybeans?  

Does it come down to a vote?  If so, we&#039;re screwed because we&#039;re vastly outnumbered (birds are emancipated, too).  Is it every man for himself?  Or do we let the animals eat first as reparation for the thousands of years of &#039;enslavement&#039; they suffered at our hands?

What happens to people in third-world countries where there are limited agricultural resources?  Who makes these decisions on use and distribution of the few food resources that are left to us?

Let&#039;s have a serious chat about the end game here first, because the more I think about it, the more it&#039;s sounding like Nazi Germany to me.  Little wonder that theirs was the first modern government to legally establish animal rights.  Quite ironic that, in the end, the animals had more rights than people. Be afwaid...be vewy afwaid!

&quot;History never repeats itself, but mankind always does.&quot;  --H.L. Mencken</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>And down the slippery slope we go!  Let&#8217;s give animals full legal rights, okay?  Will it end their suffering?  Well, has it ended OURS?  No, because while there are actually enormously pressing things to worry about, we diddle about trying to start some program that will end up with animals either a) suing the Democrats and Republicans over their party logos being slanderous or, b) ACTUAL elephants and donkeys elected to government rather than the stand-ins we currently have running the show.</p>
<p>And, if you grant animals rights, you can say &#8216;Bye-Bye!&#8217; to ever having a pet again, visiting a circus, zoo or aquarium, eating meat or any dairy, eggs or honey as well as any type of food produced using those items as ingredients.</p>
<p>Then, there&#8217;s the really tricky part.  Since we will then be forced into becoming strict vegans through legislation, humanity will be in direct competition with our former pets and livestock for a limited amount of forage.  And, since it will no longer be legal to hunt, trap or otherwise kill the recently emancipated horses, cattle, sheep, pigs, goats and other beasts, WHO decides how to divide those fields of soybeans?  </p>
<p>Does it come down to a vote?  If so, we&#8217;re screwed because we&#8217;re vastly outnumbered (birds are emancipated, too).  Is it every man for himself?  Or do we let the animals eat first as reparation for the thousands of years of &#8216;enslavement&#8217; they suffered at our hands?</p>
<p>What happens to people in third-world countries where there are limited agricultural resources?  Who makes these decisions on use and distribution of the few food resources that are left to us?</p>
<p>Let&#8217;s have a serious chat about the end game here first, because the more I think about it, the more it&#8217;s sounding like Nazi Germany to me.  Little wonder that theirs was the first modern government to legally establish animal rights.  Quite ironic that, in the end, the animals had more rights than people. Be afwaid&#8230;be vewy afwaid!</p>
<p>&#8220;History never repeats itself, but mankind always does.&#8221;  &#8211;H.L. Mencken</p>
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		<title>By: KathieK</title>
		<link>http://gantdaily.com/2010/02/28/psu-probing-question-do-animals-have-legal-rights/comment-page-1/#comment-15</link>
		<dc:creator>KathieK</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 28 Feb 2010 17:28:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://gantdaily.com/?p=19365#comment-15</guid>
		<description>“However, a basic legal right that I hope will one day extend to other primates is the right to physical integrity,” 

So, I am assuming you are against mandatory spaying and neutering of pets,  that most certainly is against any &quot;right&quot; to physical integrity as I see it.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>“However, a basic legal right that I hope will one day extend to other primates is the right to physical integrity,” </p>
<p>So, I am assuming you are against mandatory spaying and neutering of pets,  that most certainly is against any &#8220;right&#8221; to physical integrity as I see it.</p>
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